A Conversation on Internalized Misandry

I am a black anti-feminist woman and my husband is a white man who has never been against feminism, or given feminism much thought. Last night we had an interesting conversation over dinner.

We own a building with several apartments and at the moment we are changing the renter of the apartment that is closest to the apartment that is our own. We don’t live there all the time, but we are there often. We had to choose between two applicants, one is a woman and one is a man. They earn similar amounts, and both work near by. The woman smokes and the guy doesn’t.So we decided to go with the woman, and the reason was because if we had family over there they would feel more comfortable with a girl next door than with a guy since there would be little children around. I know you are throwing rocks at us at the moment, but we had to make a choice and so we did. At dinner we were discussing that choice in terms of intersectionality and so I started by saying that it was very wrong of us in terms of equality to choose the girl for the reason we did.

He agreed but said that it is just a part of life that people are more afraid of men and that he also has the same fears of other men. He spoke about a recent thing that happened to us. We were at a park both lying down on a rug and watching our kids play. A child with down syndrome then came up to us and close to my husband and lay down as if she wanted to sleep, she held on to his leg and admittedly it was weird. I thought nothing of it and moved around so that he could move closer to me to give the child more space to lay down.

At dinner last night he told me that in that instance he was very afraid of what others might think of him with a little child laying next to him like that, I would not have been afraid and fear was the furthest thing from my mind. So I asked him if he sees how this negative stereotype against men hurts men. He said yes but that it is just a part of life. He said that if for example our toddler goes to a woman and plays he would think nothing of it but when she goes to a man he pays more attention, looks closer just in case something happens.

This all reminded me of something else: being black! And so I told him, he knows exactly what it is like to be black. This made me wonder, is it the case that men as a whole can understand what being black is like since they live a similar experience. A disturbing part of being black is that the media or culture or just the reality does cause you to be afraid of others who are exactly like you. You may be aware that it is wrong, but you are still unable to stop that from happening.

Anyway, I’m not sure this is very interesting to others but I wonder can men as a class use intersectionality to empathise with other oppressed groups?

37 Comments on “A Conversation on Internalized Misandry”

  1. This website is the stupidist thing I have ever seen?! I don’t think you understand that if you want to stand up there is noooooooooooo other way to make a statement then marching. What do you think is going to happen your just going to write an email to president Donald trump? Great idea spen hours writing emails to a piece of trash who said he would fuck his daughter. He’s not going to respond. This website has 0 facts its all opinion why don’t you go read some articles that have truth in them before making a stupid website thankyou

    • I belive this website is meant to start a conversation about gender relations and gender issues that aren’t often talked about.

      So, calm down, rephrase your comment to display your intelligence and critical thinking, and join the conversation. Otherwise you are just complaining to be noticed.

      • Note 1:

        Calming down, yes. If she fixed her grammar and spelling, that would help immensely.

        Stupidist? There is; stupid, more stupid and most stupid.

        The word, “stupidist”, sounds like someone who practices being stupid.

        Note 2:

        What did that march really do for the feminists or women in general?


        What did the Harvey Weinstein lawsuits do for women?

        Gave women the courage to speak up, if they were sexually assaulted and / or raped.

        The Weinstein lawsuits created an actual nationwide culture shift, the Women’s March on Washington did not!

        Note 3:

        A truly strong person doesn’t need to tell people that they’re stupid, to shut up or anything negative, as they don’t need nor want people to speak for them because that group doesn’t have that specific person’s interests at heart, only there collective own which may or may not align
        with the strong person’s beliefs.

        Final Note:

        Ladies, if you want to be considered strong women, let’s see some intelligence here and hold back your emotional out-pouring, save that for
        pro-feminist blogs and forums that mirror pulp fiction. Granted, I’ve read some really good, well intentioned feminist blogs but they’re far and few between. What I mean by good, is they don’t have emotional out-pouring from their members, they don’t use clickbait nor talking points. They’re willing to discuss their methodolgies and their beliefs with others, even with those who have opposing views; they keep their cool at all times. As they see derrogatory and defamatory language as not being constructive to discussions.

        When I see people say nasty things about this author for stating her viewpoints, I feel sorry for those who don’t understand that their own behavior is very unbecoming of being an actual feminist, let alone a strong person. For it shows all of us that are operating with a full deck that you clearly not all there; as it makes you look like your mentally unstable.

        Have you not thought of this little inconvienient truth and paradox?

        It’s high time, that you do!

        • It does seem pretty apparent to me that feminists, SJW’s, and ideologues in general are not out there to “fight for justice and equality”. Instead, they are more out there to make a name for themselves. To feed their egos in such a way, they must insist they are always right rather than constructively exchange ideas, facts, and experiences. This is why they tend to relegate themselves to echo chambers. It is an approach that is antithetical to tolerance.

          They are basically charlatans.

          • Men in general, are treated as either 2nd 3rd world citizens in America today. If they are white men, they are 3rd class citizens. If they are “minority race” men, they are 2nd world citizens.

            Regardless, men go to prison for most absurd and small reasons around while women who commit the same crimes get probation or nothing at all.

            Illegal aliens male or female, however, are 1st class citizens in America today; they have a huge leg-up over poor Americans for welfare/section 8 housing/etc, illegals get lesser sentences for similar crimes than Americans, and the media defend their actions, no matter how atrocious they may be.

            Being black is a big benefit in college admissions, applying for welfare, getting special treatment by programs designed to “help minorities”, get special SBA business loans, etc. Being a man is terrible.

            Patriarchy in America? LOL 😀 Gotta laugh.

            Ps. American women who are pushing for open borders to masses of violent, uneducated, and barbarian men and women should check out what their policies did to Swedish women and heed that cautionary tale.

    • Why are you not “open”? Why are you not “accepting”? Isn’t that what modern-day feminism is about? I am still trying to figure out where I stand, but comments like this make me think less of modern-day feminism as a whole. I start to think there really IS a stereotype of feminists and that all the other articles on this website are correct.

      Thank you for being you and showing me exactly what “feminism” is all about.

    • Your comment is stupid. I request you to stop trying to use your brain on things which are out of your ability to understand.

      • Wow. You sound a lot like a man, telling a “silly” woman that she cannot understand.

        If you are a woman, I’m guessing you’re a self-hating woman.

    • Ok I don’t agree with the this person at all (she after all seems to think white supremacy and racism could in any way be similar to so-called “misandry”) but, you don’t need be abusive about it.

    • Oh man I feel this everyday. I told my therapist that I hate walking behind women. It makes me anxious for the same reasons and I start thinking about what THEY are thinking. And unfortunately I’m a fast walker so my pace is always faster. So you know what situation that brings up. I’ll intentionally scuff my feet to be audible and try to delay intercept as long as I can. Walking home for me becomes a tactical game of crossing streets and taking certain paths to out maneuver women so I’m always in a position to either be in front or crossing paths at sharp angles. All cause I’m worried about what they’re thinking about my presence behind them. It’s messed up and being an African-American male doens’t help either =\. It’s funny you made the comparison with your husband and being black cause I explained it the same way to my therapist. It’s fked up…… but what can you say? It’s what racial profiling is based on, but in this case gender profiling.

      Side note….. I hate smokers! That is the one self destructive addiction that physically affects everyone around them at the same time. The guy would have totally got the place! Just saying =o.

      • I feel a similar way. I always get anxious when I’m around women. It’s gotten to the point where I’m legitimately experiencing social anxiety around women out of concern for what they think about me simply because I have a little something extra between my legs.

        Women always rail about how guys “objectify” them. Not only do they overlook the fact women objectify guys too, but they don’t consider that men do experience this internalized misandry as a fear very similar to the way black men experience it.

        I, myself, have often been labelled a “wife-beater”, “predator”, or “jerk” by very nosy, presumptuous, nasty women without any justification whatsoever. I was labelled a “wife beater” by a very childish friend of my ex over the phone when she called while my ex and I were in the middle of an argument. Another time, this female acquaintance labelled me a “creep” after seeing me flirt with my ex (then girlfriend) at a bar. The irony was this girl knew her boyfriend, who was my ex’ classmate, was actively cheating on her, and at the moment creeping after my ex (then girlfriend). I guess it didn’t help that I am a colored male.

        It just seems to me that internalized misandry takes on a form where women are always right, and men are always wrong. As a result, women have freedom to judge and belittle men in any manner they choose without moral repercussions. Just imagine if men were given free reign once again to judge women and call them sluts based on their behavior. There would be an outcry in Western societies. I believe “creep shaming” is more of a problem in the West today, then “slut shaming”.

        Moreover it’s hard to say society is shaming you for your voluntary behavior. A girl chooses to be flirtatious and sleeps around by choice. No one is forcing her to do it. When it has become difficult for a man to even walk near a woman or child in public, or to engage in fairly routine acts of social behavior, it becomes a restriction of choice, therefore, fundamental freedom.

    • Trump did not say that. The only reason I vited for Trumo was that I would never vote for a Feminist, but now I’m glad I did vote for Trump, he’s got more balls than 10,000 wimpy male feminists.

  2. Thank you, Jinna, for this eye-opening post. I’m a new member of Women Against Feminism on Facebook. I hopped over to the website to read some of the posts. I would have probably done the same thing: Choose the female tenant over the male tenant, for the same reason you did. I don’t think we can help but be vigilant in our gut instincts. And the story about the little girl who came up to your husband and wanted to take a nap next to him. That’s an awkward situation, for sure. It’s too bad we have to be so distrusting these days. In fact, I could identify with all of your examples. I appreciate your honesty.

  3. I’m not sure I understand how the comparison of oppression of a black person with the oppression your husband encountered is a reason to reject feminism. Like you, it pains me that men who are nurturing and love children have a much harder time expressing that without fearing the biased or even aggressive reaction of others.

    It is this myth that the nurturing of children is the exclusive domain of women that drives me to speak out for equality for women. I know that real equality benefits both women and men in ways your experience highlights. The myth of “sacred mother” hurts more than just women.

    But, let us not forget the origins of that myth and the people who stand to benefit most from its perpetuation. For me, feminism is a fight for a valued identity beyond that of mother and to fully open the space of child rearing to men who love children and are fulfilled by the act of their nurturing.

    So, if your reaction to a man showing a public display of care and nurture for a child who is not his own is a negative one, please don’t blame feminism. The origins of that psychological response are rooted in the social construct that feminism fights against every day – that women should not be thoroughly encouraged or enabled to pursue an identity beyond or even instead of mother, and that men should not be genuinely encouraged to embrace a domestic identity beyond or instead of a professional identity.

    Feminists live for the day your husband could simply enjoy the unexpected delight of a child’s innocent attention without fear of other’s gender-biased reactions.

    • nice comment. i dont blame feminism for that at all, but i do think we should replace feminism with something more clearly inclusive.

      the advocacy of women’s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.
      synonyms: the women’s movement, the feminist movement, women’s liberation, female emancipation, women’s rights; More

      believing in or based on the principle that all people are equal and deserve equal rights and opportunities.
      “a fairer, more egalitarian society”
      a person who advocates or supports the principle of equality for all people.
      “he was a social and political egalitarian”

      do you see the difference? if you believe that BOTH men and women have issues and you seek equality between the sexes then you have no reason to not be egalitarian.

    • The origins of that myth came from a woman. Originally, a woman did most of the raising of young kids and babies because it was the logical thing to do. Men can’t get pregnant nor breastfeed, but he still had the responsibility of all. When a couple got divorced, it was the man who got the children because he had all the responsibilities to do with them, until a woman fighting for her kids pushed the ‘mothers are the better parent’ narrative, winning the case, while the father still had all the responsibilities. And the people who benefit most are the single mothers who deny the father access to his kids while still receiving his money in child support…

    • No. It’s not that myth. Men are capable of being loving and affectionate and supportive. The failure isn’t in some nebulous “myth” of what masculine means. It is entirely in not knowing how to be allowed to be both masculine and nurturing in the face of attack and dismissiveness of the inherent value of the natural sense of the masculine to be protective and nurturing. How can we actually say what we are when you define us as a pathology?

  4. It is not the fault of men that they are raised to believe some of the things that they do, especially regarding consent. It is also not the fault of men that they grow up, as women also do, thinking they are not to show any emotion, cry, or be affectionate with anyone but a woman. Preferably the OBJECT of his desire – the hot woman he is told he deserves. Some men are so used to objectifying and dehumanizing women (and sometimes even children), that they do not feel any remorse for using them as a toy for their own fodder. In short, they do not develop normal levels of empathy.

    Men are perpetrators more often because they are raised within the construct of our toxic belief system. While it can certainly be argued that male perpetrators are in part, victims of society, it is also not reasonable to ignore that the result of this dysfunctional thinking does result in rape, incest and abuse towards other women, men and girls.

    Having said that, there are also women raised to behave in these traditionally masculine ways or who very much internalize the idea that all men always want sex. It’s just not nearly as common for a woman to offend and that’s the point. I agree with you that women can and do rape men and other women. Unfortunately, though, the statistics don’t lie and the likelihood of a male perp is higher. Sure, I do understand and empathize with male victims. I know male victimization is underreported, absolutely, but how much male victimization is truly committed by another man v a woman? Methinks that data would be most compelling in regards to this thread.

    What exactly do we do to avoid undue prejudice against men? I am not certain, but the idea that men should not be educated on this premise, and women too, going so far as to claim anti-feminism, seems to be avoiding the problem. Feminism is not misandry. In fact, the whole premise is equality of the sexes, not hatred of men. Men are also victims of patriarchal attitudes, but it is time they take responsibility for their ignorance and deflection of these topics as “womens issues.” Women can help by educating themselves as well and by gently but firmly setting boundaries with the men in their lives who do not treat them as autonomous sentient human beings – the same as any man.

    Women can also stop blaming other women and fighting over male privilege (especially white male privilege) in order to further their own agendas. We all need to survive, but clinging to male power instead of fighting against it is what makes so many women feel dependent on male power and not at all confident in their ability to provide for themselves. And that is exactly what powerful men want. That is exactly what has kept the men in charge all of this time. You don’t typically see men calling each other a whore or interracial tension over who has scored the white woman as a girlfriend. You see a lot of hatred of racial minority men for dating white women, but no discussion of the white man who seemingly gets off on a variety of women fighting with each other — for him. Ladies, tell him no if he is wrong in how he has treated you. Be there for your fellow woman who has had the courage to demand dignity for herself. Stick together for yourselves and for your children so they can grow up in a world with the possibilities you never saw.

    Also, let’s be real – most white men – due to their insane privilege are mediocre at best. The men who acknowledge reality and do their best to face the discomfort of their privilege, they are the ones worth fighting for. Let’s do all we can to make more men want to be that kind of man.

    • Since studies have actually shown that a significant number of non-reciprocal domestic violence is actually female initiated battering of the male, what has feminism’s primary invention, the Duluth Model, solved? Since there is an agreement that toxic gender norms are more damaging to boys, what has feminism solved except to exacerbate the problem of attack the idea of men having feelings(cry some more, man-babies) and attacking “weak men”(beta nice guys)? What has feminism earned for men in a video social experiment(all staged) where a girl beating up a guy earned the guy laughter but the reverse brought the white knights out to beat up the guy? Where is feminism complaining about the unfair treatment of men in terms of alimony and divorce and custody? Or about the rash of commercials featuring men as idiots?

    • “Also, let’s be real – most white men – due to their insane privilege are mediocre at best”. Where do I start? Men are the only gender to be required to sign up for the selective service (the draft) – Male privilege? Oh Boy, let’s sign up to go to war against our will. What a privilege. Men are 38% of university graduates. Women have more financial programs and “women’s studies”. Men have less and none. Male privilege? Women have much higher government subsidies for women specific illnesses. Male privilege? Men’s suicide rates are 4 times higher than women’s but there is little to no research into the problem. Male privilege? Men are around 95% of work place deaths. Male privilege? Women are awarded sole custody of children in around 80% of the divorce cases with men overwhelmingly required to pay alimony and child support with very little access to their children. Male privilege? Boys are systematically subjected to genital mutilation, it is against the law to do the same to girls. Male privilege? In cases of domestic violence the police are mandated to arrest the man regardless of who is the perpetrator. All reliable statistics show that women are just as likely to perpetrate DV as men but the men are arrested anyway. Male privilege? Thank you for letting us know how privileged we are. Oh and the fact that men outnumber women in the political realm, women have had the right to vote for almost 100 year and women make up the majority of the voting public but men are the ones voted into office most often. Who is voting them in? Why aren’t women voting women into office? Could it be that women don’t run for office as much? Could it be that women can’t compete as well as men? Could it be that women don’t like having their names slandered in the public realm the way all politicians are subjected to? Male privilege is a myth and a lie designed by feminists to further their misandristic agenda. Men take way more responsibility in the outside world than women do so they end up in positions of authority more often than women do. That is why men usually are the ones who run corporations and fill the seats in high political positions. It’s not privilege, it’s taking responsibility and working harder and longer. If you don’t approve of the situation then work harder and longer and compete with men for the positions you think that you “deserve”.

  5. Hey there.Just want to say excellent website.Very informative and accurate.I am a Muslim female blogger who has started a blog about the reality of feminism and gender dynamics. I would love if we could pair up in the future to produce a joint piece or interview for the blog. Being the feminine Muslima is the name of my fb page.I’m currently developing my website.I have left my email below anyway.Thank you

  6. Thank you for posting this. I hope everyone reads it. In order for equality to be achieved between the sexes all sides need to critically examine their beliefs their identities and the lens through which they see others.

  7. I would have chosen the nonsmoker and protected the value of my property. I would not have been prejudiced against the other rental applicant based on gender. In regards to the unknown child taking a nap, I would have been looking for their caretaker. Regardless of my gender I would have been concerned about this child.

  8. I’m guessing that “Jinna” is NOT who and what she claims to be. “Jinna” probably isn’t even a woman.

  9. Men are no more sexual or aggressive than women. But while a man may NOT put his foot down as often, he very well could put his foot down harder, because men are usually bigger and stronger than women. I think this is part of the reason male violence is blown out of proportion: Because their bigger fists make a bigger impression. That’s why all women need good heavy cast-iron skillets, to knock our husbands upside the head if we need to. 🙂 And to fry sausage for them.

  10. I once had a very similar conversation with a male feminist friend of mine. We were in a shopping center observing a drunk couple after they left the bar. I pointed out that at the moment the two started playing chase, with the guy chasing the girl, even my internal biases kicked in. I admitted that my natural instinct was to assume the guy was the predator chasing after the girl.

    My friend said that sort of bias is justified because statistically men do commit acts of sexual harassment and violence. My friend fancies himself a “social justice warrior”. On that note, I asked him, “Based on that standard, then would you say it is a reasonable to have a prejudice against black men simply because, statistically, black men commit the majority of crimes in the US?” He could not mount a counterargument to that.

  11. Have a look at these wonderful anti-ferminist women at http://kookykimbo.tumblr.com

    Anti-feminism is the new black, blue, brown, red, pink, yellow and green, get used to it. No one buys the sexist feminist rhetoric anymore, it’s boring and stale, just like the Feminists who spruik whenever they get a chance to show thier misandrist bigotry.

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