People often ask why Women Against Feminism exists. One reader recently quipped that women being against feminism is like fish being against water. And yet the fact remains that most women don’t identify as feminists. Polls in the US show that as few as 18% of women there call themselves a feminist. In the UK, the equivalent figure for feminism is even more bleak at only 7% of women. This is despite more than two thirds of women in both countries supporting equality of the sexes.
Feminists are fond of dismissing results like these as irrelevant, saying the simple truth is that if you want a more equal society for women and men then you are in fact a feminist. The problem is, women simply don’t agree. The question then becomes unavoidable: What do women think feminism actually is?
Feminists would like us to believe that feminism = equality. They’d also like us to believe that “equality” means equality of outcomes, not equal human rights and equality before the law, as our parents and grandparents understood it.
If Women Against Feminism were asked if they believe men and women should have equal human rights and equality before the law, the answer would be a resounding “Yes”.
The problem is that this is not what feminism is about. Feminism is the advocacy of women’s rights based on the equality of the sexes, right? So we have 2 issues. Firstly, feminism only advocates for women; not equality. In areas where women have a clear advantage, feminism is either silent or actively opposing reform (eg. family law, education, mental health, etc.)
The second issue is that in order to grant equality for women, feminism speaks of “rights”, but they immediately reframe men’s right to work and vote as an unearned privilege of power.
By characterising men as having unearned privilege in this way, feminism has made women think that “equality” means that they should have unearned privilege as well. One of the worst effects of this is seen in the workplace. As women, we’ve been told to have our career first and then wait for “love”. We’ve been very successful in careers but found an absolute desert when it comes to our personal lives. Our male peers often have wives. It’s when men get married that they really start to increase their hours at work (in general). They have an incentive and this helps them achieve. For childless and single women, they’re working hard and wondering what it’s all for.
Feminism has led us to believe that men have it easier in the workplace. Women really believe that men are favoured and that’s why it’s usually men in higher levels. This makes women resentful. But there’s another way that feminist patriarchy theory plays into it. Remember how the theory characterises work as a privilege of power? Well women are doing these jobs and getting disillusioned because the work just feels like work! It doesn’t feel like an unearned privilege at all. Instead of realising that patriarchy theory was wrong about that, professional women are buying into feminism’s assertion that it’s somehow only work for women, but power and privilege for men. This is making women feel even more contempt for men, leaving them bitter about their entire lives.
It is time for feminists to come to terms with what Western women really want – and it’s not feminism. So what about in the developing world? Don’t they need feminism? No.
Here’s an example of a feminist law from India.
i) Section 498-A IPC:
“498A. Husband or relative of husband of a woman subjecting her to cruelty.—Whoever, being the husband or the relative of the husband of a woman, subjects such woman to cruelty shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to three years and shall also be liable to fine. Explanation.—For the purpose of this section, “cruelty” means—
(a) any wilful conduct which is of such a nature as is likely to drive the woman to commit suicide or to cause grave injury or danger to life, limb or health (whether mental or physical) of the woman; or
(b) harassment of the woman where such harassment is with a view to coercing her or any person related to her to meet any unlawful demand for any property or valuable security or is on account of failure by her or any person related to her to meet such demand.”
Is there any reason at all why only women should be protected from cruelty? Do we not also suffer when our brothers, fathers, husbands and sons are treated with cruelty? Of course we do.
What women want (and what the world needs) is gender neutral policies and laws. Feminism, by definition and by name, can never give us this. It can never deliver real gender equality. And that is what we all want.
By Chani Randazzo. Check her out on facebook!
I was looking for a thoughtful and coherent argument against feminism but this is pretty flimsy and selective (Particularly throwing that Indian law out there without context). Hoping your other articles actually carry some weight.
This was written as a Facebook comment in which I attempted to address confusion over what feminism is. The premise of the post I was replying to was that feminism was needed but has now become about subjugating men. “Feminists should go to countries like India and the Middle East where it is needed.”
Hyperlinks aren’t possible in Facebook comments (or posts, for that matter). Thus I didn’t reference the crucial way in which men’s right to vote is different to women’s.
Few people seem aware that in almost all Western countries, men won the right to vote about 10 years prior to women. It is only the US that I’m unsure about (and still researching). Prior to that, men could only vote if they owned property exceeding a certian value. In those same countries, men’s right to vote is conditional upon them registering for the draft.
Feminism claims victory for a movement that began as an egalitarian push for equal human rights, civil rights and legal rights. In fact, it started from the Suffragettes, which themselves spun off from the Suffragist movement. Suffragists were campaigning for universal suffrage for both men and women.
I believe this is the reason why most people don’t identify as feminists yet strongly support original egalitarian values like equal human rights, equal civil rights and equality before the law. A gender specific movement cannot grant equal just rights for all *regardless* of identity. It grants privileges *because* of identity.
That said, I believe you are right. This topic deserves an article.
Lol. This is what is wrong with feminism. You equate men getting the vote ten years earlier than women in western countries with the kind of crimes against women that are being perpetrated in India and the Middle East, not to mention almost any third world country. How insulting to western men who have laboured and died for their women, and value them so much more highly than other parts of the world. You want a cause, go the Middle East. Or Africa. Now.
Why are u so concern about women a only? A crime against a person is a crime against a
person.It does not matter who lives where.And Middle eastern people just go about beating women rather they are protected from abuse,Which they definitely will be if they are to roam
Why are u so concern about women’s only? A crime against a person is a crime against a
person.It does not matter who lives where.And Middle eastern people just does not go about beating women rather they are protected from abuse,Which they definitely will be if they are to roam freely.
Who gave you the right to constrain women ‘for their own good’? Again, a woman’s word is worth only half a man’s. Why is this? You are truly primitive, benighted mortals.
As a man and a believer in equal rights (in other words, not a feminist), I really appreciate the attempt, but this article or Facebook post or whatever you’re calling it isn’t even well-written. I’m sure we can do better than this.
“A gender specific movement cannot grant equal just rights for all *regardless* of identity. It grants privileges *because* of identity.” Sorry, what? If genders were equal, there would be no need for a gender specific movement. When one gender is subjugated, it needs to have its status raised BEFORE it can be equal.
“If genders were equal, there would be no need for a gender-specific movement.”
While the quote is true, your assessment of it is flawed. NEED does not affect the WILL TO POWER. They are not searching for a need here, but more gender-specific privilege.
Women in America are the most privileged beings in human history. So naturally they want MORE of the same. That’s not about need. It’s about entitlement and privilege.
Need does not determine the creation of special-interest groups like feminism.
The desire for additional privileges is all that is required.
Women are SUBJUGATED in America??
Please. They’re the most privilege populace in human history.
Feminists did that in the ’70s. Modern feminists are no better than self-interested lobbyists.
Great reply. I am definitely going to quote you from now on. Thanks a lot!
Seriously? We know when.. we know how.. we KNOW the struggles.. done. Enough. That issue is over. Women can Vote.. moving on. As a woman, I can’t stand when women stomp in a room shouting “The Vagina is Here! Respect Me!” The worst part is when the Woman next to her shouts “Me Too!!”. This world is done. No fixing it.
I am victimised by 498A and I feel this article provided a good overview
It’s hard to present “a thoughtful and coherent argument against feminism” in less than 300,000 words.
I could tell you that much of modern ‘feminism’ is synonymous with misandry, double-standards, myopia, pettiness, deception and having a victim mentality, and I could back my claim up with 100 examples.
How long have you got?
I like this post. However I have 2 comments about the 2 issues raised. First, feminism advocates to women only is not equality. That is true when you start from an equal position. The position of women are inferior to men. They do not start at a neutral point, and so advocating to women only will only act as counterbalance in the hope to reach equality. Second, feminists talk about rights which have been purposefully denied to them to keep power dialectics unequal.
“feminism [advocating] to women only is not equality. That is true when you start from an equal position.”
You’re right. It isn’t equal. Media, publishing, entertainment, marketing, teaching, biological sciences, social services and many others fields are all female dominated. It is no coincidence that feminism is a common strain in these professions. One that seeks to eradicate men.
“The position of women are inferior to men.”
Not in the growing list of fields mentioned above.
“feminists talk about rights which have been purposefully denied to them to keep power dialectics unequal.”
This country is the first in recorded history in which women have reached 50% of the workforce. No rights have been denied since the original suffrage movement. There isn’t a woman in the world who wouldn’t trade places with an American woman in a heartbeat. Bear in mind the suffrage movement began with the Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire – an occupation most modern American women would avoid (as it is beneath them).
(What women want (and what the world needs) is gender neutral policies and laws. Feminism, by definition and by name, can never give us this. It can never deliver real gender equality. And that is what we all want…..)
You cant just go from a patriarchal society to a gender neutral society. There is no way anyone would let that happen
It needs to be gradual as to not shock “the system” imo
“You cant just go from a patriarchal society to a gender neutral society.”
“It needs to be gradual as to not shock “the system” imo”
Consequence free sex is the cornerstone of feminism. Since sex is no longer a life altering decision for women, they can habitually dangle the potential for sexual opportunity in front of men. Without promiscuity, or the illusion of promiscuity, feminism cannot exist.
In that respect, the “patriarchy” has always been partially fostered by women. Women made sexual choices carefully, rather than casually. Passing on favorable genes to offspring was actually a thing, and the decision to find and hold on to a worthy mate was paramount in a woman’s life. Being pregnant 20 times with 20 different men would have eliminated our species ages ago. Now that pregnancy is irrelevant, we get feminism.
This is you;
This is not you;
Coincidentally, the location of the fire is now luxury condos. Oh, the humanity.
The women who opposed the suffragettes did so because they honestly believed they would be required to register for the draft in order to register to vote – as men do.
The women who opposed the suffragettes also supported the Suffragists – the group who lobbied for universal suffrage. Remember there was a time that only men and women who owned property over a certain value were allowed to vote. That is why half the British men who died in WWI had no vote at all.
I do not condone anyone being denied the right to vote due to their gender.
If you’d care to read the article, it says, “If Women Against Feminism were asked if they believe men and women should have equal human rights and equality before the law, the answer would be a resounding “Yes”.”
If feminists are asked the same thing, I see them instantly start to mischaracterise men’s rights as unearned privileges.
Before we can ask the question of what equal rights and responsibilities looks like, we must first examine what rights are just. We need to determine what basic human, civil and legal rights consist of. Then we can ensure that all humans are able to access these rights *without imposed barriers*.
Feminists have started with a different approach. They have determined that sex differences are exploited by men in order to oppress women for the purpose of extracting babies and services, including sex. They have started with the threat narrative and then set about neutralising “the threat”.
Unfortunately for humanity, that results in feminists claiming to be working for gender equality while simultaneously prejudicing half of the population based on an immutable identity trait, ie. maleness.
Thsnk you for this sharing this thoughtful perspective. I learned something new!
Hence the phenomenon of the “weathergirl”. Young, attractive, surgically enhanced, white women replace the Al Roker’s and Mr. G’s and point at jet streams on a screen. There are few, male weathermen. Men were replaced almost entirely in less than a decade. And they weren’t outcompeted, they were outpaced. That is not equality. It’s cleansing.
It is worth pointing out that there was no draft in Britain until halfway through the Great War, in 1916. Prior to this all soldiers were volunteers. Hence this was not a reason for women to oppose the suffragettes but more likely that they disagreed with their ‘terrorist’ style of campaigning. A famous suffragist remarked, many years after, that if at hadn’t been for Mrs Pankhurst, women would have got the vote in 1910.
Thank you for writing this! I just stumbled onto this website and community and so happy I have found this, it makes it easier to cope with the bullshit that is feminism!
I am a resident of Karachi, Pakistan. I was searching for a women’s political party in Pakistan, seems to me that you have a lot of contacts and resources, so if you could please guide and refer me a political party here in Pakistan, I would be very much thankful….
Merriam-Webster defines feminism as: the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes. True feminism is advocating for the equality of both sexes. I am a male and I myself identify as a feminist. I’m not sure where you got your information, but the feminists that you have talked to obviously do not understand the meaning of the term. Everyone needs feminism, without it women would never have been granted the right to vote, get a divorce, or even own their own property. The first wave of feminism originally focused on the promotion of equal contract and property rights for women and the opposition to chattel marriage and ownership of married women (and their children) by their husbands. By opposing feminism you are essentially saying that you don’t want to be able to own your own property without your father’s or husband’s signature, and that you agree that you and your children should be your husband’s property. It disappoints me that so many people have the wrong idea of feminism and I truly feel sorry for the women that believe that they don’t need it. Women need feminism and so do men for that matter. Just because ‘fem’ is the prefix does not mean we only focus on women. As I said before, the definition is literally the theory of equality of both sexes. The reason it seems that we only focus on women’s issues is because that is how the movement started, but that is simply because that was the need at the time. Nowadays I do agree that men need to be advocated for in certain areas, but the harsh reality is that men still have huge advantages in the majority of life. Even today we are nowhere near achieving equality. Anyways, that’s my thoughts on the matter, please email me, I would genuinely like to discuss.
“It disappoints me that so many people have the wrong idea of feminism and I truly feel sorry for the women that believe that they don’t need it.”
No one has the wrong idea about it. Everyone – even women – can see that it is organized manipulation. The first waves of feminism were necessary, as the author points out. Modern feminism is essentially a union of white collar professionals who are allergic to manual labor of any kind.
Since suffrage began, the door has remained open for women to enter the commercial fishing industry, the coal mining industry, tryouts for high school linebacker, etc. They rarely enter thankless, dangerous fields. It disappoints me that they don’t.
Men disproportionately outpace women in drug addiction, alcoholism, workplace accidents, homelessness, felony conviction, debt, shorter life spans (by far), violent crime victimization, hospitalizations, suicide and disease.
There are women who realize this, as they have seen it in their own families.
I am a male truck driver, the company I work for has various types of routes, some that are purely driving with no physical effort, and others that require some manual unloading of milk trolleys on wheels or using a pallet truck inside the trailer to position pallets. Out of the 20 or so drivers employed 2 are female. Both these females are fit and healthy and considerably younger than I am. We are all paid the same rate. But, do you think that the female drivers ever get the manual handling routes ? NEVER! Feminist’s, please come to my workplace to fight for equality!
Communism began as a social movement to help people and devolved into a monster. What feminism stands for in the dictionary has little to do with the bands of haters and male bashers seeking to dominate the office place and academia.
Am SO!!!! in love with your comment. At least, someone gets the true idea of what feminism is.
I think most women don’t agree to feminism is because fear that men would be turned off at seeing a feminist woman.
I honestly don’t think that most women, or for that matter most humans are so “self-less” that they would willingly discard all of their societal benefits that feminism provides.
But you may be right for a small minority of women.
I’m not a feminist because I don’t agree with things like positive discrimination not because I am afraid of how men will react. That really is a bizarre thing to say.
From what I have seen personally, not much good comes from modern feminism.
I was once told there was a special place in hell for me if I didn’t remain part of a female only group….. need I say more.
I am Neha Anna Cherian from India.I really liked this article but at the end i have a doubt to be cleared and i think this is the best way to clear it.What are the cruelties that men face?
Men disproportionately outpace women in drug addiction, alcoholism, workplace accidents, homelessness, felony conviction, debt, shorter life spans (by far), violent crime victimization, hospitalizations, suicide and disease.
Please also take special note of how civilly and ethically American men have behaved through this sh*tshow of the past few years, despite the fact that we are characterized as savage, incorrigible, hopeless animals.
“It’s when men get married that they really start to increase their hours at work (in general). They have an incentive and this helps them achieve. For childless and single women, they’re working hard and wondering what it’s all for.”
I don’t understand why they are wondering what it’s all for. What am I missing? It sounds like what you’re saying is that a family is the only incentive to work more hours, but that is so horribly obtuse I keep trying to convince myself that I’m missing another point.
Also “feminist patriarchy” is an oxymoron. It’s incredibly narcissistic and patronizing to use hyperbole to define what “all” any demographic wants based on your own experiences, preferences, and ideologies.
It also may benefit you to consider numerous other laws in India that marginalize women, instead of cherry-picking the ones that suit your redefinition of feminism to paint millions of men and women as unreasonable and short-sighted human beings.
As a white female, I don’t believe that white people are any less deserving of dignity and fairness, but to overlook that there are races that have been historically the brunt of specific types of cruelty, including slavery and genocide, would be to turn a blind eye to many things including cause and effect. And just because someone who is black or Native American says they don’t feel discrimination doesn’t then imply that it must not be a problem.
Feminists are no more bitter or entitled than people who refuse to identify with the ideal and this article honestly sounds like the writer is bitter. No one ever told me that my career needed to come first and in fact I was raised in Evangelicalism, which is traditionally a patriarchal belief system, so finding a husband was prioritized. I found a career I really liked at 25, built my own business at 35, and wouldn’t have desired marriage or children unless I hadn’t met my husband, who just happened to be a perfect fit for me. And that’s many women, not to mention the dads that desire to stay home with the kids when they have a family and find it more fulfilling than their careers. The men and women who do not match your hyperbole nor your own perception are young, old, black, white, straight, gay, Christian and atheist.
It’s very telling when you write sweeping statements–it shows what you think of yourself and how you feel about your own life.
You have a Dad. You should call him. He misses you.
“And just because someone who is black or Native American says they don’t feel discrimination doesn’t then imply that it must not be a problem.”
If this is true, then the opposite is also true, which is just because a person of color feels discriminated against, does not mean it is a sweeping epidemic, and could just be perception or circumstance.
“Feminists are no more bitter or entitled than people who refuse to identify with the ideal and this article honestly sounds like the writer is bitter.”
Do you have proof of the authors bitterness? I certainly did not see what you claim.
“It’s very telling when you write sweeping statements–it shows what you think of yourself and how you feel about your own life.”
Are you SURE that you aren’t projecting?
Being hyperbolic; using anecdotes over empirical evidence, logic and common sense; cherry-picking… These are all feminist traits.
Hell, the entire #MeToo movement is no more than a bunch of anecdotes
Well said, thank you!
YES! THANK YOU! GOD BLESS YOU! I HOPE OUR GENDERS ARE EQUALIZED SO WOMEN DON’T ALWAYS WIN CUSTOM OR COURT RAPE CASES! PLEASE!
“Polls in the US show that as few as 18% of women there call themselves a feminist. In the UK, the equivalent figure for feminism is even more bleak at only 7% of women.”
Can you link any data about those stats? I need it badly for my presentation.
Hi, i’d rather warn you, i’m french so i may not be flawless in my writting. Feel free to correct me.
I’m a 24 year-old man, and if labels are that relevant, i’m a feminist. I found this site while searching for its complete opposite, actually, but that doesn’t mean we can’t or shouldn’t communicate.
It is very concerning to me – and has been for a few years – to see the growth of anti-feminism, while there is still so much feminism has yet to achieve.
One of the recurring argument i saw on the internet is that women, at least in the western world, already “won”, having earned the same rights as men. Some will go as far as to say that women are currently the ones possessing unfair advantages over men, in legal cases for instance, may it be rape or child custody.
While there are some good arguments and valid points, it would come as no surprise that i strongly disagree. I’d say that while in surface, women seem to have mostly equal rights (and none of it was given, hence the “unearned privilege” for men, maybe), underneath the nice speeches this is still undeniably a man’s world you’d find in the Occident. The Weinstein scandal and all that followed are resounding proof that feminism has only just begun the work it set out te do, and in my personnal opinion it had only scratched the iceberg’s tip so far.
Now it has yet to conduct the hardest part of its labor, wich is underground, for sexism, like racism, is rooted deep into our common social tendencies and unconscious thought paterns. For instance, i believed for a long time that i wasn’t racist, even after relatively serious agressions i suffered as a teenager (or more recently). It pains me to say so but it is nonetheless true : Some irrationnal part of me is racist. I am not enjoying it but i haven’t yet found the why and how to change that.
And i might be wrong to think that, but i’m under the impression that racism has festered its way into most minds, at different levels, at different magnitudes. Yet no matter how small that social cancer is within your own mind, it is never harmless. And sexism behaves in the same way.
For instance i’ve recently realized (albeit still not wholy) that i wasn’t all that respectful of women as i thought myself to be.
Society still treats the female body as an object from wich to draw profit from, and like most young men of my age, i have been exposed to that businness strategy my whole life, may it be through commercials, movies or pornography. It would be a flat-out lie to pretend none of it has any impact in how i view women : We are products of our environment.
So it is not so much a workplace problem as a social one. And what saddens me greatly is that we seem to regress : The media, in its constant appetite for controversy, decided to show only the most extremist of feminists (wich is called misandry by the way, not feminism, i beg you to look it up) and because stupid and hainous people’s voices are louder, we all tend to think they represent their cause, even when they are in fact helping to destroy it.
We men are the first cause of mortality for women, and in many countries women still are second class citizens, slaves, (more often than i’d wish, litteral slaves) subjects to strict codifications – not that we don’t have our own.
And i don’t speak only from what i’ve gathered online or on the tv, i’ve been to Tunisia for instance, with a muslim friend from that country, and had a glimpse at our own past, and it’s not glorious. But he did not see anything wrong, for he was raised in that timeless oppression and found it normal.
Western society as a whole is more understanding and equal towards women, but because it is more advanced in that regard shouldn’t be an argument for apathy ; As if because we have better access to basic needs or human rights, we shouldn’t strive for better.
We should try to better ourselves constantly or see our past mistakes haunt us : Trump. Le Pen in my country. Duterte in the Phillipines, and so many other places over the world where the ghosts of the past century all come back running
Feminism is a belief that there is a bias against women in our societies, and yeah, the law and the institutions have progressed drasticly, but mentalities haven’t always followed. That’s the heart of the problem, or is someone gonna try to convince me that it is normal that ALL my female friends have had to deal way more than once with sexism, and sometimes in horrendous ways ? I had to deal with sexism too once, it was an event. For them, for you, it’s part of a routine, and that is not ok.
As long as this is a reality for so many women, we’ll need feminism. Yes men can be unjustly treated compared to women, but the proportions vastly differ. Yes it is hard to be a man too, but we still own 80 percents of the top tier jobs, and yes boys and men can be raped too, but it’s not them that are put in high-heels on the streets to be exploited by nefarious criminal networks.
Anyway that’s my take on this vast problem, and there is still so much more to say… I hope it was readable and not too full of grammar errors. Also hope some will read and some will react, have a good day.
I just want to thank you for your well thought out cometary. I find it hard to believe that someone could disagree with anything you said. Although there are no people agreeing with you either, well maybe just needs some time to sink in before it gets to the core.
Have a good day.
Thank you for your thoughtful and insightful comments!
Simple solution to feminists and feminism. Treat both females and males of the species just as people. Justs and end to sex and dating and marriage. Get a dog for a companion and sex toys for any sexual needs. Boycott women in any other respect than jist as another person!
‘Jist’ keep calm and carry on!
I thought im the only wonan agaibst feminism. Turned out in not alone 🙂 Feminisn is about women being above men. Thats not possible but whats possible is gender equality. I dont know why feminists aim to be above men. What woukd they gain? pride? lol!! Kudos to this site. I myself is against feminism. Lets all be together for equal rights not just WOMEN rights. Its Human rights.
That’s not what feminism is about. If you believe in equal rights and opportunities than you are a feminist. Unless you selfhate and don’t think you deserve equal rights and opportunities because of being born with a vagina. Than uou become an anti-feminist = anti-woman
Need does not determine the creation of special-interest groups like feminism.
The desire for additional privileges is all that is required.
Women are SUBJUGATED in America??
Please. They’re the most privilege populace in human history.
Feminists did that in the ’70s. Modern feminists are no better than self-interested lobbyists.
Your view on feminism is very different from a lot of other peoples. Feminism is NOT this. Yes, feminism is the equality of both genders, but that statement doesn’t in any way claim that there aren’t spaces where men are considered inferior to women. I think somewhere down the line you have confused feminists and misandrists. Feminists unlike misandrists do not believe that women are superior to men. Feminism is there being an infant care in male restrooms, for single or gay dads, it’s there when women who like sex, aren’t shunned by society, feminism is where single pregnant women aren’t hidden behind closed doors because they slept with a man outside of the wedlock. Also, in India it was not uncommon to find a woman being abused by her husband when the Constitution was drafted.
What you are describing is simply ‘civilised behaviour’; in other words, “Do as you would be done by”.. Unfortunately, it’s seriously lacking in many parts of the world
If what you say is correct, there sure are a lot of misandrists out there, claiming to be feminists
And – and this is backed by polls – a lot of women (in fact MOST women) who claim not to be feminists
You’re not right, but you’re not wrong.
Feminism – to me – seems to be a spectrum. At one end – in an ideal world – you have fair, balanced, rational people who believe in gender equality. Except, in the real world these people choose to identify as ‘equalists’ or ‘egalitarians’. Because they don’t want to be confused with the feminists at the other end of the scale – the lying, hypocritical, deceptive misandrists with victim complexes
This is a seriously refreshing thing, to see that not all American women have succumbed to this toxic mode of thinking we call “feminism,” these days! We are always going on about “toxic masculinity” (AKA being masculine at all) these days, why not address toxic femininity as well? Oh, wait, we can’t, because SEXISM. One of the defining signs of any given group being a cult is vehement denial on their end of people calling it out for what it is, yes? And believe me, the moment anybody–but especially us horrible “privileged” straight white men–says anything at all about it that does not toe the party line, we are crucified. Makes you wonder.
I seem to recall this trend beginning as far back as the early 90s, to be honest, and it’s no good for men or women in general. What we have now are Feminazis as opposed to feminists. Feminists have gone from actually wanting equality, agency, and being strong and empowered to being scared little girls mindlessly lashing out at anything and everything men say and do, and further, vigorously enforcing all the negative tropes about men and women in the world so that they can have excuses to be forever angry at men. I had a great discussion with a woman of my generation–a self described feminist–some years back where, when I asked her, were modern feminists really just angry man haters, she gave me one of the best answers I’ve ever heard:
“For the most part, yes. I think they’re just a bunch of angry lesbians. What I want to know is; why are they so angry?! They have it better than their mothers did, than their grandmothers did. Why are they so angry?!”
I can’t help but agree. It would appear they are ungrateful for the struggles their mothers and grandmothers went through to achieve what women have in America, these days, which is more than they think they have, in my opinion. The Patriarchy they are always complaining about was what gave them the rights they are currently taking for granted due to their mothers and grandmothers challenging it, suffering for it, and finally achieving the rights in question. When women can vote, own land, open checking accounts in their own name with no man involved, use birth control and dictate when if ever she becomes pregnant, terminate a pregnancy at will (though the Mexico City order is still in place that I can recall and that is not acceptable), and voluntarily join the United States military as opposed to being forced to register for Selective Service AKA the draft, how is that not power and privilege? When a woman can destroy a man’s life and career with a single accusation, true or not, of rape or sexual harassment, how is that not privilege and power on her end? Further, I will advance the thought that I think they have a thoroughly unhealthy obsession with rape, as well. Considering that according to RAINN, the last I heard anyway, the percentage of crimes that are rape or sexual assault in America is down to less than half of 1 percent in recent times (as in the last year or two, if I’m not mistaken), how is this anything resembling “feminism,” I ask.
Let us be fair here. Many–but not all–men in America still have a ways to go when it comes to being more polite and respectful to women in general, and I will agree that our culture and society has work to do in that field, as well as with women. When the day comes that it’s deemed acceptable for men to learn to cook and clean and take better care of themselves, not to mention grow up and be responsible for their words and actions, as opposed to seeking a wife to do all the “woman stuff” for them (as well as give out limitless booty whenever he wants it) since he is a clueless man child, then we have started making some progress. And if we can show that it’s acceptable for girls to learn that striving for a rich husband who will fund her efforts at reproducing and put her on Easy Street is not all there is to life, then we can start to think we’re making some progress, I think. When girls are still culturally conditioned to believe that they can have everything the way they erroneously think men do–and believe me, we don’t unless we’re Donald Trump, as in born into money and have had everything handed to us all our lives–and when boys are still culturally conditioned to think that sports and sex and being “macho” are all that matter in life, it will take more than a horde of screeching harpies descending every time a man opens his mouth to change that. It will take recognizing that the tropes that modern “feminists” depend on to exist are toxic to us all. Until then, I will continue calling these women what they are, Feminazis.
Thank you for creating this site, and I am glad I found it!
I don’t think a lot of people understand the definition of feminism here. If you believe men and women should have equal rights, you are a feminist. Period. The shaming of the women (and men) that support the feminist movement is absolutely atrocious. Of course feminism highlights the improvement of the treatment of women–women are the minority in this instance. Of course the modern situation for women is improving, and is better than the past, however the fact that people are still against feminism shows that we still have a long way to go before we reach gender equality. The treatment of women in the past and as of recently has improved due to feminism. This article discredits feminists and tries to shame them… and how could somebody against feminist explain what it is? As a young woman, I am thoroughly disappointed that someone would publish this. This is NOT what feminism is about.
In regards to the Indian Law, data shows that women are more often traditionally abused by their husbands. Of course men are abused by their wives, also. However, in some regions abuse can be seen as regular depending on a variety of factors. Very rarely were husbands actually convicted of this crime in the past. Safety from abuse is a basic human right, not a feminist issue.
“I don’t think a lot of people understand the definition of feminism here.”
Yes we can understand English. (AKA feminism ISN’T what it says). The reason why we are against it, because of it’s ACTIONS.
“If you believe men and women should have equal rights, you are a feminist. Period”
Sorry, that’s the belief of an EGALITARIAN. Feminism holds the belief that’s there an evil oppressive “The Patriarchy” which grants men “unearned privilege” at the “expense” of women. Have you ever considered areas where you’re exonerated solely on the basis that you possess a vagina?
“The shaming of the women (and men) that support the feminist movement is absolutely atrocious.”
If you “feel shamed” that she has told the truth about how feminism lies about men and ultimately hurting women, then you have a problem.
“Of course feminism highlights the improvement of the treatment of women”
It doesn’t. It always talks about women and girls being “oppressed” at the hands of “The Patriarchy”, men or boys.
“women are the minority in this instance.”
This doesn’t make any sense.
“Of course the modern situation for women is improving, and is better than the past,”
Probably superficially. This article is one of multitudes examples of how feminism has hurt, betrayed and conned woman. Your comment,believe it or not proved that.
“however the fact that people are still against feminism shows that we still have a long way to go before we reach gender equality.”
Did it ever occur to you that many of these people once upon a time supported feminism; in some cases for YEARS? Didn’t you consider as to why these people no longer do so? How about taking time out and ASK WITH AN OPEN MIND why this is.
“The treatment of women in the past and as of recently has improved due to feminism.”
Here you have little idea of what you’re talking about. You’ve been misguided because feminism is built hate, jealousy, sexism, lies and theft. The treatment of men has gotten worse due to feminism.
“This article discredits feminists and tries to shame them.”
Wrong, this article explains how feminism gave women false promises and take it on good faith, they end very disappointed/
“and how could somebody against feminist explain what it is?”
Read other articles on here and check out Karen Straughan, Hannah Wallen, Cassie Jaye, Erin Pizzey and the like; then come back and tell me that feminism is about equality.
“As a young woman, I am thoroughly disappointed that someone would publish this.”
When you get older and experience the real world you might see where these women are coming from. Why do YOU need a women’s movement to DEFINE YOU AS A PERSON? It doesn’t reflect good about yourself.
“This is NOT what feminism is about.”
Feminism ISN’T about equality or about women. Feminism is about BLAMING MEN for women’s shortcommings. Have a good look at feminism and the messages it imparts; and you’ll see it for yourself.
“In regards to the Indian Law, data shows that women are more often traditionally abused by their husbands. Of course men are abused by their wives, also.”
Can’t you it’s an ANTI-MALE LAW?
The concluding part is just drivel, I won’t bother comment on it. However, feminists like you who sees feminism as a “label” that they “affix” to themselves, I don’t take them seriously. Because you take some as gospel without question. The spout out the lies when you don’t know the true facts. rarely were husbands actually convicted of this crime in the past. Safety from abuse is a basic human right, not a feminist issue
This is possibly the most idiotic thing I have read. There are both men and women who identify as feminists because feminism is a movement to END SEXISM. If you think it’s about “blaming men for women’s shortcomings”, you really must be mindless. Feminism was created because men did have an unearned privilege, that is why women couldn’t vote, or work, or have access to birth control. Before you preach your opinion, understand what it is you are talking about first.
That may be why feminism was created; decades ago; but you’re incredibly naive if you believe that the movement hasn’t been bastardised and is now nothing more than misandry, deception, pettiness, hypocrisy, myopia and victimhood.
One example (I could give 100). The suggestion from feminists that office air-conditioning is ‘sexist’ (I’m serious – Google it). The gist of the complaint is that men have a higher core temperature than women, and office air conditioners are generally set so that men are comfortable, whilst women shiver.
1. Where is the evidence that men control the A/C settings? In my current workplace, a woman does. And I’m often too hot.
2. If you’re cold, put on a cardigan. If I’m hot…. then what? It’s not like I can take my clothes off in the office.
3. I am often too hot when I’m at work. I often take my shoes off and roll my sleeves up. I also struggled to get my wife pregnant (we required IVF). This could well be a side-effect of being too hot all the time; and unlike ‘shivering’ or ‘being uncomfortable’, this is actually a serious side-effect that created stress and financial loss (IVF is expensive and stressful). If men complain about heating and dress codes making them infertile, I’d say that’s a pretty valid complaint. If women are complaining about air-conditioning just because they feel a bit chilly sometimes, that’s just pettiness.
4. So, what’s your solution? You’re moaning, but you aren’t suggesting a fix.
This example highlights the myopia and pettiness / victim culture associated with feminism.
Men: possibly becoming infertile, thanks to dress codes and heating in offices, but nobody complains
Women: moaning about air-conditioning making them a bit chilly, and dress codes making them a bit too warm (look up #SleevelessFridays), and they can’t stop bleating about stuff like this in the MSM
Unfortunately liberals killed feminism. And it’s too bad because, as Anna points out, we still have a long way to go and we aren’t there yet. But when a “women’s” group can turn away women because they are conservative, it’s no longer serving the needs of women. It’s no longer about equality, it’s about agenda.
Feminists openly attack women who don’t agree with their agenda. How is that about equality? According to them, if a woman opposes abortion, or votes conservative, or chooses to stay at home, she is an uncle Tom and a traitor to women. Look at how many liberal women have openly attacked women that voted for Trump. That’s absurd. And probably why so few women actually embrace the movement. Because it’s not a movement any longer. It’s a political ideology.
Feminism should celebrate stay-at-home moms for getting to live the life they choose. Fight for women to have the freedom to do whatever they want with their lives. Don’t attack them because they aren’t out in the workforce. That’s just silly. If a woman wants to get married, have kids, and stay home to raise them, why aren’t feminists fighting for her right to do what she wants with her life? After all, it’s her body, it’s her life. Why should “feminism” tell her she’s living it wrong?
And feminism is anything but equality of the sexes. How many feminists are fighting for a 50/50 ratio in less desirable jobs like sanitation, mining, auto repair, construction, fishing, the list goes on. They fight for the jobs they want. And that’s great. But that’s fighting for opportunity, not equality. And I think just about everyone these days agrees that women should have equal opportunity to enter any career they choose. And then should be rewarded/compensated/promoted based purely on merit, not on gender.
Gender equality, along with racial equality, is hugely important. Feminists need to get rid of their political agenda and back to fighting for the rights of women. All women. Not just liberal, white-collar women.
Umm feminism is about standing up for the rights of an oppressed group of people. Women. Originally feminism was about letting women vote, have jobs and not be forced to bear children. Today the battle feminism is fighting is involves sexual harassment in the workplace, slut shaming, the sick idea that women are gatekeeprs of sex and have subordinate roles and rape culture. If you are against any of those things you are feminist.
Feminism isn’t about matriarcy it’s about destroying patriarcy which has been in power too long.
And that, right there, is the problem, dear Emily. “Destroying Patriarcy”. All feminists want to do is destroy men, to make themselves feel better. Bitter, twisted women, full of hate. Men haters, women baiters. That’s why I hate feminism. And I’m a women.
Destroying Patriarchy and destroying men are two very different things. Patriarchy is an ideology. Men are people. Feminism, as I view it, embraces and celebrates men and their inherent gifts/strengths and rights, but I do wish to further progress the ideals and patterns that have been perpetuated by patriarchy, where women are perceived to exist solely for the pleasure/care giving of men and to bear children. An ideal that propagates a subconscious measure of our core worth to our ability to snag a man, keep him happy, raise our children,…. which in turn creates this obsessive need to be desirable and young, and whatever else we have been conditioned to strive for to be deemed as the ideal woman. These ideals diminish the worth of women’s competence and ability to contribute meaningfully to the world. We are capable of so much more.
For the record, I do not blame men. History, ignorance and the inertia of deep rooted mindsets from both genders have resulted in where we are now. But I refuse to accept a world where women are still subjugated to anything less than common decency and respect. And by that, i mean being called a bitch for saying “No” to sexual advances, being dismissed and interrupted in a meeting full of men, being mansplained over and over again and talked to with condescension like i’m confused about what I want and know, being hit on by my boss, being asked if it’s that time of the month when I’m irate, being shamed for not having children, being told that my success is due to my being “pretty”, being told that my intelligence will scare men off, celebrating men who go around banging and grabbing chicks like it’s a sport, …and the list goes on. I wish for women to be treated like human beings with our own valid mind and sense of agency. Too much to ask? 🙂
Look, I 100% believe that a woman can be strong, feminine, playful and support feminism, while also loving and celebrating and respecting men, and mostly i believe we need to have lots of compassion for both genders who have suffered greatly from these oppositions.
“being dismissed and interrupted in a meeting full of men, being mansplained over and over again and talked to with condescension like i’m confused about what I want and know, being hit on by my boss, being asked if it’s that time of the month when I’m irate, being shamed for not having children, being told that my success is due to my being “pretty”, being told that my intelligence will scare men off, celebrating men who go around banging and grabbing chicks like it’s a sport …”
Not sure what any of this has to do with ‘men’ or ‘feminism’
1. I am often talked over in meetings; and often by women. Every workplace has rude, loud, arrogant people. Sometimes they’re men; sometimes they’re women.
2. ‘Mansplain’ is an offensive gendered term. The word ‘condescending’ already exists. That was fine. To invent a gendered term to mean the exact same thing is to imply that only men are guilty of the trait. This is the sort of myopia, misandry and hypocrisy that turns people away from feminism. It’s no different to ‘manspreading’. Because, when women put their bags or their feet on seats, that’s fine… but when men sit with their legs apart, all of a sudden the practice requires a gendered term and a social media campaign to eradicate it
3. I have also been hit on (and slept with) my boss, and been harassed by women in the workplace; as have 20-25% of all men. Again, this stuff is not unique to women, therefore it isn’t a feminist issue – it’s a decency issue. I have also been sexually assaulted – by women – on more than one occasion
4. “being shamed for not having children, being told that my success is due to my being “pretty”, being told that my intelligence will scare men off…”
Tempting to cry ‘fake news’ at this point, as these sound like things that all feminists say; yet they don’t happen to the women in my life (trust me; I talk to them about this stuff – a lot). Same with things like “being told to smile by random strangers”. I’ve never done it, never seen it happen and never heard of it happening to anyone I know… but feminists would have us believe that it happens to all women on a daily basis.
Just who told you that intelligence scares men off? It’s absurd! Why would I want to marry some dummy?
4. “celebrating men who go around banging and grabbing chicks like it’s a sport”
Like women don’t do this. One roommate used to ‘keep score’ on the fridge, and boasted of ‘being in triple figures’. Another used to keep the names of everyone she slept with in a book.
In contrast, I have no idea how many women my male friends have slept with, nor do/did we talk about such things
Typical anti-feminist rethoric, spreading false information. “A new, 2,000-person UM London survey suggests: A full 69 percent of British girls ages 13 to 18 answered “yes” to the question “Would you personally define as a feminist?” compared with just 46 percent of women overall.”
Always spreading disinformation about feminists and feminism.
Typical feminist projection of rhetoric. If you cannot use any integrity with your arguments, then they in fact are not arguments. Just more bleating from the uneducated, indoctrinated and critical thought vacuum. And using false data to claim factual data is false is simply asinine. Again…
lets get a few things straight. Feminism is basically the want for equal rights and privileges that most males in the world have. The idea that the first world countries do not need feminism is complete bulls**t. for years women and their individualities have been suppressed by patriarchal notions and world beliefs.
One of the main reasons that feminism is seen as a horrid thing is because feminism is mistaken for feminazisim, that is basically misandry.
one can find multiple examples of patriarchy everywhere
1. catcalling is seen as acceptable
2. wage gap. (yes. it exists.)
3. the sentence “Act like a girl.”
6. objectification and unrealistic body standards
and many, many more if you just look.
feminism is the fight against toxic patriarchy.
so, yes, EVERYONE should be a feminist because feminist literally is the demand for equal rights, made by nearly one half of the population.
What about the sentence… “be a man” or “man up”
What is your point?
Could you, or anyone of your ilk for that matter, at the least TRY to respond as if you actually read the piece? Your canned responses seem to always completely ignore things within the piece that already deal with your……rebuttals (if you could call them that.)
1- Where? On some random street in some random city? Does not an epidemic make.
2- No it isn’t. That’s what economists and other who actually understand basic math and rationale have been telling you for years. And it’s an EARNINGS gap. Learn the difference.
3- “Act like a man”, “Man up”, “Be a man” etc, etc. Need we go on?
4- Done by WOMEN. So woman up and address them.
5- Then quit being mooches and using men as emotional tampons. Maybe act like decent human beings and consider the feelings of the guy that you keep on the sideline to USEFUL for You when You want them.
6- Tell you what, I’ll trade being objectified as cannon fodder/meat shield/pack mule for your objectification for sex any day. Yeah and see those 8 pack abs on the cover of every romance novel? Yeah realism is what you’re all about.
I’ll see your “many, many more” and raise you even more, with Actual institutionalize discrimination for men. Care to try me?
Feminism IS toxic. Did you read the article?
So, no, EVERYONE is starting to pay attention to the ACTIONS of feminism and not what feminists like yourself want to BULLSHIT everyone into believing. So stop vilifying nearly one half of the population and take responsibility for yourself for once.
For starters, the basic definition of feminism is having equal rights for all. It is a fight against toxic masculinity. Against patriarchal notions that women should be lesser than men.
As for your point,
1. The wage gap is exactly what is stated. It is a thing all women face. There are multiple examples of it.
2. I am in no way defending women who slut shame other women, but you must understand the source of it. It all begins and ends with toxic patriarchy.
3. When it comes to friend-zoneing, is it wrong for a woman to treat a guy like a close friend or best friend? Is it really wrong to reject a person just because they saw “signals” when there were none intended?
4. How many magazines have you seen with unrealistic body proportions of women? Every Disney princess. Every single Barbie doll. Women are literally Photoshopped to remove all body fat before their half naked bodies become the covers of magazines.
Feminism isn’t toxic. It is a movement that contests equal rights for EVERYONE; not just women.
The fight isn’t against men. It is a fight against toxic masculinity which makes lives difficult for every human on earth.
We do not live in a “man’s” world, its a world we share and that’s the reality. One gender is no greater than the other as we both serve a purpose when it comes to the reproduction of our species. Its when it comes to basic human rights that the human male has thumped his chest and used oppression for his personal gain.
By making life in general harder on women and girls males have been able to at very least appear to achieve more than he actually has. Endless numbers of female scientists, engineers, physicians, chemists, scholars and entrpanuers have been lost throughout history because of oppression. Its 2018 and still women are paid less for the same work despite many having more experience and college degrees that exceed their male counterparts as well as many women bypassed for promotion simply because of their gender…life is hard enough but when others deliberately make it harder, it only places more focus on the reallity of gender bias.
Bottom line, feminism is not about hating men or wanting to be men. Its about eliminating the animosity and barriers that have for around 3000 years been directed towards females simply because they were the opposite sex. There is only one reason for oppressing others and that is to have control of them. So by denying women and girls for hundreds of years their right to education, property ownership, career endeavors, voting and sexual choices, only serves one agenda and that is control.
Today in parts of Africa and the middle east women and girls are bought and sold. Because they are considered property and not as people men have the right to beat, rape, torture and murder the females they buy. This is why islam is a big draw for males, because they can do what they want without fear of reprisal. A very sad reality for the world as a whole to think that there are men who actually want to be able to do such horrific acts upon others. But it is reality and for those women and girls unfortunate enough to live there, they literally live in hell with no way to escape.
So, when women here in America say they reject feminism they are rejecting everything they embody…the gift of being female and the connection made by millions of women from the past before them who have paved their way by making the changes necessary so they do not have live oppressed, as property. To these women I owe a lifetime of thank you. Because of them I have my basic human rights, of which I will never surrender.
Freedom is not free, and until all women and girls have it and are considered human beings, the fight for feminism will not be over…they are us and we are them!
All this one is English you people are speaking. come to my country; no why am I being selfish? Come to my continent: Africa. Come and live as a black woman for just a day then you that criticises FEMINISM because of the misconception that it wants to oppress men will vote for most of them to be burnt alive. I dont stay in America so I dont know how it is over there but here; in Africa, feminism is one of the few tools that is going to liberate the female race from whatever bondage mankind has put it in. I say mankind because even women think like that.
Typically, a feminist carries the same moral compass as a rapist. She has little compassion for other people and places her ambitions and desires above the rights of others. Her main weapons are false or exaggerated claims of sexual, physical or emotional abuse, usually against men in general, but occasionally against individuals. When she attacks, she insists her victims have no feelings and should be able to get over it without any lasting damage. Although she claims to be a humanitarian, she cares only about herself.
After reading a lot of these comments, I am mostly confused about why most people who are against feminism are bunching all feminists into misandrists. feminism has multiple branches/categories to allow for multiple perspectives and adversaries as part of the movement. yes, there are radical feminists. yes, there are contradictions in the monumental nature of the movement – there are feminists both for and against the abortion debate.
I also have a question for a simple clarification as I am genuinely interested and am really interested about all sides of this movement: what is womenagainstfeminism’s stance on cat-calling and sexual harassment against men and women?
not trying to start an outrage, just trying to open a late discussion about something i am interested in !!